Nigeria is recently plagued by a high rate of insecurity, given that you and the Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Wilthrough, are friends of President Muhammadu Buhari, how worried are you?
This is very worrying and I know that the President himself is not comfortable with the situation. I don’t forget the last time I came here to the country, I had an audience with him and I expressed our condolences for the other people who lost their lives and those who were kidnapped. He said, and I agreed with him, that security is the duty of each and every citizen. I know how things are in Nigeria, we drive each and every duty of the day government and security agencies. But honestly, as a Nigerian citizen, I am not happy that many of us do not take security as our duty. The government is divided, we all know that. There are those who believe, like my governor in Kaduna state, that bandits are thieves, whether they are Christians or Muslims. So he doesn’t deserve to have devout feelings, a thief is a thief. I completely agree with him (the governor) that bandits deserve to be treated as they are treated in the world. They are thieves and enemies of peace, security and progress and must be treated without mercy. The government tells us that we have given so much money to get weapons, airplanes, and yet those bandits continue to attack us, they multiply everywhere. The media deserve to join this battle. Who are the ones who supply the bandits with weapons? Who are the ones who shape them? Between us we shape them, they know when the troops move, that’s why I call on all Nigerians to unite in the fight against terrorists. I have read the reports of the attack on St. Patrick’s Church in Owo in Ogun State. The governor said they had tracked down the user who was hiding the thieves before they attacked the church. We will have to join the government even if they don’t like President Buhari. Let’s join hands and save our country. Nigerians have become too sentimental about faith and ethnicity, those are the two things that are killing us in Nigeria. I have never subscribed to being a northerner or being a Christian in anything I do. I am a Kaduna user and I will do whatever God allows me to do to make sure that no matter where you are from, no matter what your faith is, you enjoy peace in Kaduna. Some members of the security corps of workers on the war front have complained of suffering damage due to the corruption of formulas and not receiving good support. Here we see the negative effect of corruption in our society. Corruption is banditry. The biggest challenge facing Nigeria today is corruption, and it’s top-down. Don’t just look at politicians. Religious and classical leaders are involved, each and every one is involved. We seek to have candidates for the elections, the way to collect one hundred million naira by adding church leaders putting up one hundred million naira. What did they get for this, not even a vote and the church leaders shut down! The cancer that eats away at our country is corruption. Until we all see our challenge and dedicate ourselves to solving it, you can replace governments 10 times and the challenge will still be there. Who do we vote for? What is the difference between APC, PDP, Labor Party etc? They are all the same.
The ruling APC’s Muslim-Muslim presidential price ticket has further polarized Nigerians according to devout division, what is your comment on it?
This is very concerning, many of you have texted me asking for my opinion. I refrained from commenting because we are a nation in very poor health. We are other informed people but we are very ignorant. So my reaction is one of pity. I confess that all I have done is pray, particularly for Christians, that they stick to the path that the spirit indicates to them. You know I don’t speak prophetically, but I do my things prophetically. Whether we vote or not, we know who will win this election. Therefore, my recommendation is this; Christian leaders seeking to convince Christians, what is their track record? We have to start thinking, those who suddenly came out saying they are Christians and asking Christians not to vote for the Muslim-Muslim formula, what is their record? Since leaving government, what have you done for your communities at home? What have they done in the party they are affiliated with?. . . Whether you are a Christian or a Muslim, leadership demands integrity, whatever you say other people have with you. Leadership demands honesty and humility. Leadership demands compassion and sensitivity. There is no humility, that’s why our concheck out is failing. How many of our leaders are responsible? Look what a Nigerian senator faces in this country (UK) today.
The child, even in Nigeria, is nothing. In the UK, it’s someone. His life is like the life of the senator. That’s leadership. Let us move away from faith and tribal feelings. If I had a chance to meet Tinubu, Atiku, and Obi, I would ask them serious questions. I don’t care if you’re a Muslim or a Christian. At the end of the day, Nigeria does not want a Christian president or a Christian vice president. Nigeria does not want a Muslim president or vice president, Nigeria wants a God-fearing president who brings the values of this faith to governance. Let’s get away from feelings. What it is is the quality of leadership.
One of the spokesmen for Bola Ahmed Tinubu, the APC presidential candidate, said that if Tinubu comes to power, he will lead Nigeria like Buhari, what is your opinion on this?
It is a fact that the largest population of Nigerians does not like Buhari’s administration. What is your reaction? My answer to that will be, for us as Nigerians, to give the applicants the opportunity to make this inquiry to the presidential candidates themselves. Let applicants speak for themselves, not as spokespersons. What the media wants to do is create public awareness. Let’s follow the qualities. The media can replace opinions. Nigeria has problems.
You were among those who supported Buhari in 2015, will you say you will leave Nigeria better than you knew him?
As a sociologist and director of the Kaduna Center for the Study of Christian-Muslim Relations, I don’t think it’s right for me to do this. We base answers on verifiable evidence and I don’t. I am comparing all aspects of our society, starting with Kaduna and then the country. However, your query raises a vital fact that Nigerians fail to consider. Do you think I care who the president is? I don’t know. Do you think I care who is the governor of my state? I make. Do you think I care who my adviser is? Yes, I know, because that’s where I feel they have an effect on governance. Ask me this question about Kaduna, I have facts and figures to compare 2015, when El-Rufai came on board and today. I can easily answer this query. This is my state, the effect of the government affects me and ordinary people. Many things have been replaced in Kaduna. Nigerians really deserve to think more and paint more locally. Look north, look at our governors. How many of them can compete with Zulum (Governor of Borno State and El-Rufai? And I dare say they are Muslims. No matter what faith they profess. Zulum and El-Rufai stand out in the country. I agree, banditry. has become the order of the day, however, as I said before, we are complicit in this banditry in Kaduna state. Why do they come to Kaduna? Why do they attack herdsmen, priests? It has nothing to do with it. do with faith it’s about money They know the church will pay.
Last year it laid the foundation for the structure of its Kaduna Center for the Study of Islamic-Christian Relations. How did it happen with the project?
I advise you to go to the site. We are making progress. We were able to raise N200 million outside the country. My plan is to get President Buhari to inaugurate it, no later than April next year. I’m on the side of a million dollars and we’re halfway to getting it.
What will be the effect of the medium on relations between Muslims and Christians?
As our fellows graduate from the two-year program, we expect them to create small teams in their communities. We need to start from the bottom. Once other people know that even if their neighbor is Christian or Muslim, they have religion in the same Almighty God, we can paint together. The police.
Do you plan to return to Nigeria to retire next September?
Well, I won about 4 invitations to come and help in 3 churches in AMERICA, one here in the UK. My main focus will be on the Kaduna Center. I need it to be an identified center around the world and we are running difficult to achieve this. But I will seriously consider going to help in a giant Anglican church in America to help them in evangelism, expanding the church and uniting them with other parts of the Anglican world. Apart from Japan and Korea, I have visited 165 countries during the seven years. God did not give me this privilege to stay, but to help the church. So you’ll see me more in Nigeria and the United States.
What is yours for Nigeria and Nigerians?
Our country is in a very disastrous state. The more money we invest to keep our country safe, the worse the scenario becomes. As I said, everyone deserves to make a contribution to the fight that opposes this banditry. Nigerians, especially those of us in the north, let’s move away from devout emotions. This thing kills us and the other people of the south use it to divide us further, while they don’t do the same on Yoruba land. The other Yoruba people are very close. whether Muslim or Christian. We will have to do the same. There is only one God, we serve Him differently. Nigerians want to go beyond emotions and see other people as human beings who have gifts. God expects us to use those gifts for the community. Only God can save us, don’t look at anyone. Devout leader, do what he tells you to do.
The Anglican Communion has finished its Lambert Conference, can you tell us how it went?
The Lambeth convention is about 10 years apart, but due to the Covid pandemic, we had to postpone it. A total of 650 bishops and about 450 spouses were provided. So we were over 1000 people not counting all the volunteers. The theme is “God’s Word for God’s World”. . . We are in 169 countries and I have had the privilege of visiting those countries in addition to Korea and Japan. Of the 42 provinces, Nigeria, Uganda and Rwanda did not allow their bishops to come. Primates used their authority to dissuade them from attending. The practice of the Archbishop of Canterbury since the first Lambert Conference has been to invite both one and both bishops and not one and both provinces. You have the right to invite the bishop of communion to your diocese, which is the Diocese of Canterbury.
But it’s not the Canterbury convention, it’s the Lambert convention because the first convention was held at its administrative headquarters which is Lambert in London, as opposed to the Houses of Parliament. The culture is that both you and a bishop discuss with your diocesan council and come with it. with the reports of his diocese and percentage with other bishops. This is the raison d’être of the Lambert Conference. This is not an invitation from the Archbishop of Canterbury to the province. It is up to the individual bishop and therefore not a convention of archbishops. Let me this in more detail. In the Anglican Communion we have 4 tools: We have the Archbishop of Canterbury in his workplace as president of the communion. Secondly, we have the Primates assembly when the Archbishop discusses and discovers a convenient time for all the Primates to meet twice a year and whenever there is a desire for them to meet. Third, we have the Anglican Consultative Council which is made up of a bishop, a priest and a lay person from both one of the 42 provinces. They meet once one one one one and both one one one one and both 3 years, however, in between there is a council status committee that physically meets twice a year. The fourth tool is the Lambert Conference, which is the assembly of all the bishops that make up the 42 provinces. Each diocese in both one one one of the 42 provinces that make up the Anglican Communion. So those 3 provinces (Nigeria, Uganda and Rwanda) did not come, their primates did not allow them to come. We have never had all the bishops providing since the start of the Lambert Conference. Even at the first Lambert Conference, the Archbishop of York didn’t come, the Bishop of Ghana didn’t come, a good number of bishops in England, which is the province of York, didn’t come, so it’s nothing new. However, Nigeria, Uganda and Rwanda did not come because according to them the Archbishop invited the Bishops to the assembly. But I want to live from it. The concept of inviting both one one one one and both one one one one one and both one is to give both one one one one and both one one one one and both one a chance to express their opinion. So, the bishops were invited but their components were not invited and because of this there are bishops from components of the communion who did not attend because their components were not invited. Array There is Nigeria, Uganda and Rwanda who refused to come because the bishops were invited. This convention was special because the husbands, that is, the wives, the husbands of the women bishops had their own assembly. There were times when they stayed together, but for vital resolutions the wives were not involved. This query for homosexual help for homosexuals in the Anglican Communion, is there a biblical provision for this? If the Lambert Conference identified bishops having same-sex marriage interaction, does that lend credence to what they do? I want it to be transparent. The Anglican Communion of Churches – there is no Anglican Church, we are a communion of churches. In sociology we have concepts and you have difficulty when there is no percentage meaning in the concepts. The Anglican Communion of Churches is not a single Church. The Roguy Catholic is a church because it has a centralized government with the Pope at the head of the church. So they are a church. In the Anglican Communion of Churches, both one and one church are independent, but all churches are interdependent, which is very important in the way we govern the church. As I said before, we have four tools that help us pass the time ourselves. In the Anglican Communion we don’t have any formula or apparatus for telling a particular church to be excluded. We are a church that allows the voice of one one one one and both one one one one and both to be heard. When other people say that the Bible says this and that, I want to ask, what does the Bible say about corruption? What does the Bible say about polygamy? The Nigerian Church is very corrupt, the Ugandan Church is very corrupt, the English Church is corrupt, the American Church is corrupt. Suppose the Americans stand up and say that the Church in Nigeria, the way it supersedes its charter, the way it elects its bishop, is corrupt and we have evidence, so we’re not going to have anything to do with you. Fix what you are saying. Would you say that the Bible accepts corruption? Nope! However, no one and no church can impose its position on another: there is independence and there is interdependence. We are percentages, we inform ourselves together, that is the intelligent view of the Anglican Communion. On the question of homosexuality, the Bible is very transparent. The Bible passages say that all liars, all homosexuals, all other corrupt people will go to hell. In the Anglican Church we have a position on this ongoing crisis that has engulfed all churches. There is no church that does not struggle with this factor of enormous sexuality. The Anglican Church has taken a very, very transparent position. So we have a lesson and that is in the resolution that we made in 1998. Of all the bishops that we have in Nigeria today, I think only the Archbishop of Enugu is the only serving bishop who was at the 1998 convention and maybe one or two more. . In 1998 we made a resolution and said that in view of the union of the Scriptures, we support constancy in marriage between a man and a woman in a lifelong union and we believe that abstinence is only for those who are not called. to marriage This is the position of the Anglican Church, it has not superseded. Whether you’re Baptist or ECWA, you can’t say it’s a biblical position. . . We recently asserted that one and the other is still valid, it hasn’t been done away with. However, in the Anglican Church, we wash our dirty laundry in public because of how we perceive the theology of the Church. This is our one one one oneing and most Anglicans have subscribed to this one one one oneing. On the other hand, we have some provinces, about five that have made a resolution to go ahead and recognize those who cannot practice or maintain our position as Anglicans, that is where we are. In the Anglican Communion, we are open and objective. It is regrettable that the voices of Nigeria, Uganda and Rwanda have not been heard. They are no more evangelical than Josiah. No bishop in Nigeria is more evangelical than Josiah. Yes, I am retired, but I am the leader of the Anglican Communion of Churches by the grace of God and I know what is going on. It’s this air of arrogance, it’s not fair.
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