“Now you’re going to call me a Holocaust denier, right?”: George Monbiot comes face-to-face with his local conspiracy theorist

Covid vaccines, chemtrails, Great Reset. . . Why do other people make up fake conspiracies when there are so many genuine ones to worry about?There’s only one way to know: ask a believer

I’m a conspiracy theorist. I believe that other people’s teams are secretly conspiring against our interests to line their pockets, cover their backs, or achieve political goals. By that definition, I suspect you are, too. We see evidence of such plots every day. We see them in the Horizon scandal, in which the Post Office has continued to prosecute innocent operators. We see them in the government’s use of a “VIP” channel to acquire PPE from friends and donors at exorbitant prices. We see them in the Windrush scandal, in which other people were denied their legal rights and illegally deported through the UK government. In the Cambridge Analytica scandal: a Canopyt micro-targeting crusade that possibly would have influenced the Brexit vote. In the Panama Papers and the Pandora Papers, they show how the ultra-rich hide their money from taxes and legal scrutiny.

They are all conspiracies in the truest sense of the word: hidden machinations that serve special interests while harming others. A theory is a rational explanation, subject to refutation. If you settle for that, those scandals are the result of hidden machinations, which you are evidently not a conspiracy theorist.

As with issues of public importance, the language we use is deficient and misleading. We want broader terms, one that distinguishes outlandish and malicious fairy tales from the very essence of democracy: the reasoned suspicion of those who exert force on us. . I prefer to call fairy tales “conspiracy fictions” and those who peddle them “conspiracy fantasies. “

A common facet of this question is that there is very little overlap between conspiracy fantasies and conspiracy theorists. Those who in unsubstantiated stories about occult conspiracies and secret machinations tend to show no interest in well-researched stories about occult conspiracies and secret machinations.

Why, when there are so many genuine conspiracies to worry about, do other people feel the need to invent them and create fake ones?These questions are urgent in our age of excessive political disorder. This disorder results in a giant component of IArray. de a type of meta-delusion, called neoliberalism. The spread and progression of this ideology has been quietly funded through some of the richest people on the planet. His crusade of persuasion was such a success that this ideology now dominates political life. it has enabled the privatization of public services; deterioration of public aptitude and education; developing inequalities; endemic child poverty; offshoring and erosion of the tax base; the currency crisis of 2008; the rise of modern demagogues; our ecological and environmental emergencies.

But every time we begin to perceive what’s happening and why, that perception is being derailed in some way. One of the reasons for the derailment is the diversion of the public’s fear and anger into unfounded conspiracy fictions, which distract and confuse us about the reasons for our dysfunctions. It’s incredibly frustrating.

There are many hypotheses about why other people tell those stories, but there’s only one right way to answer the question: talk to them.

I live in the Lentil Belt: near Totnes, in South Devon. Although all kinds of people have made it their home, the country has a reputation, not entirely undeserved, for “spirituality”: the convergence of new-age culture. and conspiracy fiction. The most disturbing episode of the BBC radio series, Marianna in Conspiracyland, featured Totnes artist Jason Liosatos. He didn’t see what was wrong with his blatantly anti-Semitic and eugenic claims. When I searched for him, I discovered an article from the anti-racist crusade Hope Not Hate, detailing his anti-Semitic smears. He had also been banned from YouTube for his lies about the pandemic. He looked like a monster. But when his call came up among friends, they told me, “The weird thing is that he’s a great guy too, helping other people and distributing their money, a pillar of the community. “living in the basement I had imagined.

I was intrigued. How can anyone pass by anyway?How can he be prosocial and kind, while spreading as many anti-social and ruthless lies as possible?He seemed like the user to communicate with naturally if he wanted to know why and how these fictions were being spread.

When I entered his gallery, Liosatos greeted me warmly (he knew who I was) and told me about a mutual friend. A 62-year-old man, tall, fit and attractive, with a tough figure and thick hair, remarkably friendly and kind. How is it possible that this user has such horrible opinions?He agreed to communicate with me and we arranged to meet at Dartington Hall, a medieval building not far from the city.

While researching the interview, I discovered surprising contradictions. Like Russell Brand, he mixes venomous fables with religious exhortations. “Cherish the gift of the day of life on this planet in this vast universe. “I discovered the same old conspiracy fictions: vaccines, nanoparticles, 9/11, chemtrails, 5G, net zero, the Great Reset. . . and some of the worst anti-Semitic slurs I’ve noticed online.

Born in Barry, Liosatos has a warm South Wales accent. He left school very early, suffered from drug and alcohol addiction, and became homeless. His sense of social justice got him into trouble: In South Africa, he was shot dead while seeking to protect black citizens from police beatings. After a spiritual awakening, he took back control of his life: he is a talented and successful artist. Many of his paintings have apolitical themes: portraits, landscapes, cows, horses, abstracts. Some show dark scenes of starvation and exploitation. How can I understand this man?

We sat around a table long enough for Vladimir Putin, in a giant room in the old hall. It seemed as naïve as possible to me, without the barriers that most people erect against the world. Their body language is open and relaxed. It’s hard not to like it.

But from the moment we started talking, I found myself in a state of excessive discomfort. The first things he said to me corresponded so much to my own worldview that it was almost as if I heard my own voice coming back to me. This triggered a strong sense of guilt through the association: as if, because I agree with him on some points, I was also to blame for the crude anti-Semitism and other fictions he propagates. He spoke with ease about how we internalize the oppressive nature of a formula “based on greed, fear, profit, power, debt, and short-term slavery. “People, he told me, “act like everything is fine. And that’s part of the problem. There is an ability in which each and every user suffers suffering, pain, boredom, punishment, work they don’t need to do. I couldn’t have said it better.

Like me, you need to “start building small models” of networked action. And it is in this spirit that he acts, with remarkable generosity and open-mindedness. “People come to my shop,” he told me, “sometimes to ask questions. Sometimes other people come and burst into tears. It turns out that he serves as a kind of unofficial therapist for other squalid people in the city. He told them that he had explained to them what they were feeling. I totally agree with this and would give it a name: capitalism, which, thanks to the pervasive oil of neoliberalism, is making its way through all the cracks of our lives.

I soon discovered, back with some awkwardness, that there’s another thing we have in common: neither of us is in it for the money. When I asked him how the YouTube ban had affected his income, he told me that it was a blow as he had a large following, but added, “I never raised it as a profit issue. “He may have made a lot of money, he says, but he wasn’t interested. Today, on his own in this channel, he sells some nutritional supplements (it turns out that they correspond to the territory), but he claims to do almost nothing, something that, looking on his site, I can believe without problems.

This sets him apart from many other fanciful conspiracy theorists, some of whom are making a fuss by spreading their false stories. Some, like the military sponsored through the oil companies, are paid directly. Sometimes, the agreements are more diffuse. The Tea Party movement, for example, which has spawned poisonous culture wars, political divisions, and conspiracy fictions (such as Obama’s “Birther” myth), nurtured and promoted through Americans for Prosperity, a crusader organization founded by the ultra-wealthy Koch brothers.

Some make staggering fortunes selling fiction on Substack, Spotify, and Rumble. Some influencers have made tens of millions this way. Liosatos, unlike some culture war entrepreneurs, turns out to speak with conviction. “I just wanted to communicate about a bigger world for humanity and a more just world,” he told me.

When I asked him about the impact of the BBC series, he told me that many other people in the city, adding that other people he loved, “suddenly didn’t need to communicate with me anymore. “Someone drew a swastika on the wall of his gallery. ” I don’t need to be that user who communicates debatable things, George. Let me tell you, I’d rather not do that. . . But I do it because I feel a legal responsibility to other people who haven’t even been born yet.

Here’s what I found in our conversation: the rhetoric used by other people in the Green and Left movements (other people like me) had been repurposed to justify gruesome slanders against Jews and other groups. Liosatos uses the language of liberation to rationalize the lies that reinforce oppression.

“People can say whatever they need about me,” Liosatos said. “But come and communicate with me, come meet me, that’s all I ask of people. I’m not that bad of a guy. “

I asked him about a video on his channel, in which Liosatos interviews a fellow artist named Harry Vox. Vox, a U. S. citizen, describes himself, like many conspiracy theorists (which gives me another wave of dissonance), as an “investigative journalist. ” In reality, he’s just reciting discredited claims. In Liosatos’ video, he claimed that “all the think tanks that have any significance in Washington are funded with Jewish money”; that “Jews control the media”; that for six hundred years Jews have been earning money “as toll collectors, tax collectors, tenants. “They don’t work, they “just own the property and rent it out,” etc. In other words, he deployed this age-old guilt movement, blaming the Jews for all the ills of capitalism. Throughout this disgusting tirade, Liosatos nodded, interjecting, “Well said, Harry. “

All of those stories are long-standing tropes or false generalizations used to propagate and justify anti-Semitism. As Hope Not Hate has documented, Liosatos himself has a history of such claims and tells others to “read the Protocols of the Scholars of Zion. “to find out who your masters are,” and claim that Bill and Hillary Clinton belong to the “Zionist Jewish bankers. “

When I questioned him about these and similar lies, it soon became apparent that Lyosatos believed that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion were a true strategic document written by Jews. How is it possible, I wondered, that someone doesn’t know that this is an infamous anti-Semitic fake?When I tried to convince him to perceive that I was channeling outrageous lies, Liosatos began to ramble, waving his arms, speaking in broken sentences, and suddenly veering off into unrelated topics.

I began to suspect that he considered himself a martyr, persecuted for following his convictions. He claimed that the Guardian was paying me to find out that I was anti-Semitic. “What do you have to do? Put me in Dartmoor Prison. Is this where you think I am?

He had no intention of knocking it down. But I thought it was worth interviewing him or someone like him, because conspiracy fictions, even – perhaps especially – when promoted through others who claim to need a better world, can have fatal consequences. motivate terrorism and attacks against Jews, Muslims, immigrants, legislatures, and other targets. Anti-vaccine myths help spread infectious diseases. Some of the most common lies also target the public sector and civic life, spreading lies about public health, schools, traffic moderation, urban planning, weather policy, university courses, and taxes. They reinforce the onslaught of neoliberalism. When such lies are propagated through hard-line interests, they could be thought of as conspiracies to spread conspiratorial fictions. They confuse other people, deprive them of their power, and divert attention from the crimes and methods of states, oligarchs, and corporations. If you recite these fables, you might believe that you are attached to the Man. Actually, they serve you.

Almost invariably, this litany of false stories drives other people to the far right. Conspiracy fictions are the fuel of far-right politics: they work without them.

I asked Liosatos if he agreed that for many years, adding the Holocaust, Jews were persecuted and murdered as a result of anti-Semitic insults. The paranoia he had begun to stumble upon now seemed to come to light.

“Now you’re going to call me a Holocaust denier, right?”

“What is your view of the Holocaust?

He talks very fast.

“I don’t know. I don’t know. I’m sure there was a Holocaust, George. Yes, there was a Holocaust, wasn’t there?. . . I know the other people were. . . Were they gassed, murdered? There are a lot of other people, Poles too, a lot of other people, right?

While many other people, totaling 1. 8 million non-Jewish Poles, were murdered with bloodless blood by the Nazis, the number of Jews they murdered (six million) exceeds their attacks on any other group. A not unusual theme in “soft” Holocaust denial is falsifying those facts.

By now, the warm expanse of Liosatos had disappeared. He stuttered and tensed, his arms stiff. I felt furious and sad for him. There was something tragic about the way he had tried to navigate what he rightly considered a crazy world and come to conclusions.

I talked about the interview he had with a guy named Courtenay Heading. In Liosatos’ video, Heading claimed that viruses don’t exist and that Covid is “a fraud,” and referred to doctors selling Covid vaccines as “Mengele doctors. “theme in Liostatos’ work: for example, he promoted the unfounded and discredited claim that blood clots discovered in corpses by embalmers are caused by Covid vaccines.

At the time of the interview, Heading was awaiting trial. Liosatos thanked him for all he had done, described him as a hero, and compared him to Martin Luther King and Gandhi for standing on the side of the law. Liosatos told me Ese Heading was now in prison. When I asked him why, he said, “Well, he did a lot of things, he did a lot of walks, he was. . . Was. . . really. . . “

“Why was he in prison?”

“I don’t even know. “

“You said that by putting himself in the aspect of the law, he was a hero. But you didn’t know what price he was facing?

“I don’t remember, it’s a lot of things. “

“There is an express accusation. “

“Okay, you’re telling me. Show me I’m an idiot, George. Come on, take the glory. He seemed frustrated and resigned, almost as if he knew the game was over.

“It’s about persistently stalking and harassing a female scientist. During the entire time she was pregnant. For which he was sentenced to 8 months in prison. For Heading, the scientist’s “crime” is to have created a Covid testing center.

“Good. “

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After the Promotion

“The ruling ruled that it is hard to conceive of a worse case of harassment. “

“Ouais. Je I didn’t know. . . So now you’re going to say – to make me look even more stupid, of course – that I’ve researched this further.

Yes, I said I had researched this further. Wasn’t he curious as to why Heading was awaiting trial?

“Well, I knew I’d been doing it; I heard him harassing someone who worked in the science department. And I had a lot of evidence that this vaccine harmed people. “

“And you justify harassing a scientist?”

A long pause. Well, I think so, yes. Yes, I think so, yes. And now they said, “Oh, she was pregnant. ” But, George, listen, I find your question surprising. I think you’ve been a lawyer or something, George.

When I told him I wanted to perceive it, he replied, “You were sent here. It seemed that he, too, felt like he was the victim of a conspiracy. I have moved on to the question that leaves me most perplexed. So many fantastic conspiracy theorists interested in genuine conspiracies?

You have to make an effort to see the fake stories but not the genuine ones. For example, there is a widespread fiction that “chemtrails” (the term conspiracy theorists give to contrails) are a vile plan to spray us with poisonous metals. (composed of barium and aluminum) to adjust our minds. There is no evidence for such claims, however, poisonous metals in airplane exhaust can replace our way of thinking. In the UK, the fuel used in piston propeller aircraft is still tetraethyl. Lead: In sufficient doses, lead reduces IQ and intellectual functionality and can lead to irrational behaviors, delusions, nightmares, and hallucinations. An article published in Public Health Challenges estimates that more than 370,000 families (around 900,000 people) live near airfields in the UK. “They are at risk of exposure to destructive degrees of lead. “

In the EU, tetraethyl lead is being phased out of jet fuel. But the British government has insisted, since Brexit, on creating a separate formula to regulate chemicals. One of the effects is that there are no plans to prevent the use of tetraethyl lead. in this country.

I strongly suspect, though it turned out, that this is the result of industry lobbying. Call it a conspiracy hypothesis. I also suspect that this is the kind of end result that some of the major donors to the Brexit crusade were hoping for: the deregulation of dirty, anti-social capital is a central purpose of neoliberalism and, as we have noted in many cases, Brexit has achieved this. Call it a partially proven conspiracy hypothesis. But I have yet to locate a chemtrail enthusiast who shows the slightest interest in tetraethyl lead or the dark money invested in Brexit. If a story is believable or turns out to be, it turns out as if they don’t need to know.

I then asked Liosatos about the scandals I mentioned at the beginning of this article: Post Office, Windrush, VIP lane, Cambridge Analytica, Panama, and the Pandora Papers. In any case, he told me he didn’t know enough about them. It seems to me,” I said, “that we concentrate on the things that are not true and not on the things that are true. “

“Oh my god!” He laughs. ” It’s amazing. I’m surprised you say that, George, I am. . . Why do you think I haven’t looked at them, George?

“I don’t know. “

“Well, what are you implying. . . ? Say it. Take it off your chest. It’s almost like. . . You’re kind of looking to fight! It’s weird, you know?

The wind seemed to stop.

“I think I’ve had enough, dude, honestly for God’s sake. I had a long day. . . I’ve been in the hospital with my friend for a week and a half. . . And to be honest, I love you so much, really, I’m not retiring because I feel threatened through you. . . It’s just that I–I can’t do that.

He seemed so dismayed and outraged that I began to wonder if I was chasing him. Can you be too harsh on someone who spreads cruel anti-Semitic lies and seeks to justify harassment?I still felt pity and anger towards him, but then to those feelings was added another: pollution. I felt like I needed a shower.

He began to fid in his seat, almost getting up to leave. I asked if there was anything else we could discuss. It seemed to me that Liosatos was looking to create a bigger world. How can the adventure into this larger world involve spreading anti-Semitism and protecting bullies?

“I’m doing the best I can, you know? If anyone wants help, I’ll do my best to help. At the same time, okay, maybe, like you said, I made some terrible mistakes. . . You can write anything. ” You need about me, I’m not worried. I’m not. I have nothing to lose.

Could it be, I asked, that he’s focusing on conspiracy fictions because he can’t deal with the genuine horrors we face?He threw back his shoulders in exasperation.

“Oh my God, George, I’m surprised you’re telling me that. I’m in shock. I’m not saying you’re at everything. It’s complex, that’s what I’m saying. What I do, George, is Look what everyone says, right?

“But you don’t look at what everyone says, do you?”

“Oh, okay, George. That’s it. “

“Should I avoid recording?” I asked.

“You can just say Jason said let’s turn it off in The Guardian. . . Hey, wait, wait: ‘He put on, he kept putting his glasses on. ‘And then it came here to me. George, are you going to do?that?

“No, I’m going to do that. “

“I hope not, dude. “

When we entered the moss-covered patio, it looked deflated. He said: “I probably wouldn’t do that again. I don’t get any of this. I will return to spiritual vision. I told him I thought it was a smart way. “idea.

“Let’s give him a hug,” he says.

In her perfect e-book Doppelganger, Naomi Klein explains how existing conspiracy fictions are a distorted reaction to the impunity of power. We know that they lie to us, we know that justice is not done, we see the beneficiaries exhibiting their immense wealth. and its anti-democratic power. Conspiracy fanatics may be wrong about the facts, “but they’re right about their feelings. “

I would upload some thoughts. I consider conspiracy fiction to be a form of comfort. It may seem strange: they claim to reveal “the terrifying truth. “But look at what they say. Climate degradation? It’s a hoax. COVID-19? All wrong. Power?Just a small clique of Jews. In other words, our innermost fears are unfounded.

These fictions are very conservative. Several of Harry Vox’s slanders would have been familiar in England 800 years ago. Suspicion about science and technology, judging by the widespread agreement between blacksmithing and black magic, dates back to the Iron Age. Anti-vaccine myths in Europe are as old as vaccination. Conspiracy theories tell us that nothing has changed, that it’s the bastards themselves who are in charge, it’s an evil that we know. Perhaps that’s why some fantasies are so attached to their stories: they’re a position of safety.

Conspiracy fictions also tell us that we don’t have to act. If the challenge comes from a remote and highly improbable Other – other than a formula in which we are deeply rooted, which demands a democratic crusade of resistance and reconstruction – you can wash your hands of it. and get on with your life. They free us from civic responsibility. Perhaps this is why those interested in conspiracy fictions are rarely interested in genuine conspiracies.

When I contacted Liosatos for fact-checking after writing a draft of this article, he emailed me to request some small deletions on non-public matters, which I accepted, though otherwise seemed resigned. “This is not really retaliation for the defamation you have done against me,” he sought me out to know that “when I was with you, I felt in you a deep spiritual emptiness and unhappiness, though well hidden. . . It may be, it’s quite sad for me to see and feel the pain of other people who hide so well. “Then, reminding me of his warmth and lack of resentment, as well as the turmoil he has caused me from the beginning, he wrote, “Thank you again for inviting me to meet and I wish you all the best, love, and prosperity. . . “

It’s hard to measure our own spiritual well-being, but all I can say is that as I grew older, I was surprised with a powerful and unifying happiness. I feel strangely reconciled with life and with the end of life, not anymore. haunted by the demons of my young men or by the prospect of sickness and death.

Or I’m wrong. Perhaps we will all succumb to the fictions of our choice.

Jason Liosatos and I have the same preference for a more wonderful world, the same anger toward those who let him down. I think what sets us apart is rigor. I don’t think he’s rigorous enough when it comes to choosing what to believe. That is why His lack of rigor, His intuition for justice, and His deep sense of persecution led Him into a very dark situation. This led to someone looking to be smart to cause wonderful damage. This is a warning to all of us.

The Invisible Doctrine via George Monbiot and Peter Hutchison was published via Allen Lane on 16 May for £12. 99. For The Guardian and The Observer, ask for your copy in Guardianebookshop. com. The authors will be reaching out to Zoe Williams about her e-book in a Guardian Live. Online event on Wednesday, May 8 at 8 p. m. BST. Book your tickets here

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