This is an unedited transcript.
Hi, I’m John Milewski. Welcome to the Wilson Center. Now a production of the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars.
My visitors are Merissa Khurma. Merissa is the Middle East Program Director at the Wilson Center and Faria Nasruddin, Program Associate, where she is assignment manager for the Middle East Women’s Initiative. I would like to welcome you both. Thank you for acompañarnos. Merci. Et soArray, as you know, we are celebrating an anniversary.
It’s been five years since you and I were talking about this program. Merissa, the launch of your new blog and you need to write a blog. And so, before we take a look at how those five years have gone by and what the existing issues are, what are the setbacks. Tell us why the blog was created, what its purpose is, and tell us about other people who don’t know the ancient foundation of this name.
Thank you, Jean. No I can, it’s been five years, but here we are today. When I first joined the Wilson Center, we were necessarily running to resurrect many of the paintings that the founder of the European Parliament, Haleh Esfandiari, had already done on women’s rights and women’s issues in the Middle East and North Africa region. And there were no blogs similar to the Middle East program.
And the purpose was to provide a platform for the varied and varied voices of women in the region to write about all the other issues they face. So, it’s not just a blogging platform to communicate about women’s rights or women’s demanding situations. Rather, it is the experience of all other women’s voices in the MENA region.
And I chose Anna Doña as my call because she was the first and the one in the world. She was a poet, high priestess of Mesopotamia, and it seemed very fitting to me that the first one was not only a woman, but also from the region. With that, I hope we’ve also brought a lot of other people to a nugget of history that sometimes, you know, we get lost when we read about the area.
And I’m very proud to say that we had over 180 participants from across the MENA region. All the countries we paint with, paints and paints, from Iran in the east to Algeria and in the west, Algeria and Morocco. So I think it’s been a glorious five years. I have learned a lot from the many participants.
And the topics were also very diverse, from climate change to women’s participation in the office, through digitalization, generation and security. So we’ve been very lucky to have that diversity not only in terms of other countries, but also in terms of issues and experience. Well, Marissa, congratulations on the good luck of this task and on all the other people you brought to work and on the called options encouraged.
It’s so iconic. It’s almost mythological in its possession, so I really appreciate it. Well, Maria, before we communicate more about the blog, tell us about the initiative you manage as a user within the Middle East program. As Marissa discussed and had what is necessarily the flagship publication of this initiative. To this end, the initiative produces the Esfandiari Forum, which brings together voices from the region and from Washington policy circles, as well as women leaders from Washington policy circles to really communicate about the issues facing the region and women in particular, the women of the region.
Our last conversation was with Ambassador Paula Dobriansky, who spoke with Marissa about women and women in Afghanistan. Basically, where does the U. S. stand today?And we’ve actually been looking for women and women in recent years. And that’s just one of the many topics we’re talking about right now.
So, the initiative in this iteration will focus on both facets of women’s rights. But moving forward, like Adana’s original mission, isn’t just about putting this on the table, it’s also about addressing other issues that women might be dealing with. Whether it’s climate change, workforce participation, or even peacebuilding in the context of peacemaking, they’re directly similar to women’s rights or just the situations women are living in lately.
And, you know, you either talked about our dear friend and colleague Holiday Esfandiari, talking about iconic or almost legendary. And I need to clarify, you know, if you guys need to go back and take a look at the archives of the Wilson Center. Now and in the Middle East program, you can find a lot of systems with Holly. And to know, I present some of the interviews I’ve done with her over the years about her ebook My Prison, My Home, which tells the story of her. prison in Iran.
But let’s get back to the blog and all three. I need to ask you about an article you wrote to publish on International Women’s Day. And we’re taping that show in Women’s History Month. Tell us what you’ve written in this article. International Women’s Day therefore focused on the overarching theme of investing in women with a variety of sub-themes, namely poverty eradication, gender-responsive budgeting, transitioning to a green and care economy, and supporting feminist changemakers in general.
Therefore, the editorial analyzed these sub-themes from the attitude of the MENA region. And so we were writing about the feminization of poverty. One of the MVP interns wrote about poverty in Tunisia and how women continue to face this factor post-COVID, what measures are being taken on the business side to help women, and also what do you want to do?
What do the studies focus on? In particular, he discussed food security, among other issues. I then focused on the transition to a green and care economy. So, after COP 28, great efforts have been made to open up opportunities for women, like the MENA region and the world. All over the world, new sectors are being created in the blank energy box. So it’s a wonderful window of opportunity, but part of the editorial is that simply opening up those opportunities is rarely necessarily enough, that it has to be accompanied by genuine structural policies. to make economies work for women, remove barriers to women’s access to those opportunities, whether it’s a structural replacement,
care work, as well as converting school systems to better prepare the workforce for skills. And then the last topic that we addressed as a component of the International Women’s Day themes was supporting feminist agents of change. We look at how women, at the local level, put in place other methods to facilitate women’s access to the economy and their participation in society as a whole.
So we’ve covered some of the blogs written recently. One in Turkey, for example, sought to replace the global culture in Turkey’s tech and business sector, and how women share with each other in this industry down to the individual level. Mahfouz wrote an article about women’s schooling and how converting the mentality of women’s schooling will facilitate a nation’s schooling towards women’s schooling will have to be done for their own intelligence and for their self-improvement.
So, you know, supporting feminists who make change in this regard encompasses a wide diversity of tactics and strategies. Marissa had an impressive diversity of topics and a comprehensive list of contributors. Give us a little behind-the-scenes look at how you’re making decisions, editorial decisions about what’s next. Well, thank you, John. I’m going to tell you how we’ve done things so far and then I’ll hand it over to Faria as well, because it’s part of our purpose. It’s not just about expanding the network of other collaborators in the region, but also about getting things done a little bit and attracting a wider audience.
So, for us, when we started, it was about highlighting the issue of women and leadership. And when I reached out to various women leaders in the region, I wasn’t just talking to ministers or parliamentarians because they are the ones that other people are in positions of authority. But I came here with the confidence that you can exercise leadership, leadership as a practice, wherever you are.
You can just be part of civil society and lead communities, families, and organizations and do valuable work. Much of the work in the social sector, especially across the region, is predominantly led by women. Or defying stereotypes and overcoming barriers in a foundation. at those local levels. And that’s very, very important.
So we started to diversify a little bit more and broaden the networking topics to also include other women who are focusing on some of the issues that we were dealing with here at the Wilson Center as a component of the Middle East program, from progression to the virtual economy. peace and security, gender-based violence, as well as what Faria mentioned, climate change and forced displacement.
That motivated me a lot through the other topics that we were discussing, but we also meet a lot of other people in the meetings and, you know, some of them here at the Wilson Center, some of them in the domain as well. You know, as soon as I get the impression, you know, from an activist or an entrepreneur that there’s a story there, I automatically invite them to contribute.
And I don’t think it’s slowed down so far, which is a smart sign.
So I’m guessing, Marissa, that other people are not only not declining, but they’re also starting to volunteer.
Yes, some writers came back and said, “I have this in mind. I introduced them to this concept and I’m very grateful for it because they come to us knowing that it’s a platform that will welcome their concepts. their experience. And for us, it just highlights the diversity of the region.
But really. Marissa made you a smart segway and then I stepped on it. But now it’s your turn. No, absolutely. So, I mean, we’re employing in the same way, you know, and we’re building on the paintings that Marissa has already done, reaching out to the contributors who are working on the issues that we’re tracking. The MEP has remained the same, but we are an initiative that we are passionate about, it is the developing voice of women in the MENA region that we lead in partnership with the news agency.
More about its history. It’s a little bit of a different technique as it’s a little bit more journalistic. We’re partnering with this wonderful new news firm to engage and engage voices and stories that might not otherwise necessarily succeed in that audience. So far, I’ve written a similar article about Afghanistan. We do a lot of reporting on Gaza and a lot of other spaces that we wouldn’t necessarily have connections to if it weren’t for that news company there.
And that’s all we’re doing, to continue and expand, taking a different kind of approach, but one that’s just as valuable and just as necessary. Pray, I need to ask you, you know, I know. This is too broad a question, and I apologize for that. But using the blog’s five years of lifestyles as a demarcation point, since you presented things have moved forward for women in the region, they have stabilized, they have regressed, they have regressed. ?
You know, we have this clash between Israel and Hamas and other disturbances. Every day, the whole world turns out to be on fire. What are the circumstances? What is your tendency?That’s a very smart question. I think overall, we’re seeing progressive progress across the board. So if we look at the knowledge that brings all other countries together, then we will see significant progress in education, physical fitness, and labor market participation. say less in terms of political participation on some points.
However, there are diversifications throughout the region and this is another key point to highlight: the MENA region has many things, in addition to some of the demanding situations faced by women. But, as you know, every country has its own set. of demanding local situations, as well as their own progress reports. And I think that the countries that have made very significant progress in the last five years, that is, in terms of women’s participation in the labor market, women in leadership positions and even the replacement of the gender pay gap, occur more frequently in the GC, see the Gulf Cooperation Council countries.
So in Saudi Arabia, for example, where we’ve noticed that women’s participation has skyrocketed, you know, from around 15 to 20 percent, from 15 to 20 percent, that’s a very significant growth in a very short period of time. Similarly, in countries such as Bahrain, which we highlight in our report on women and entrepreneurship, and the United Arab Emirates, Qatar. As a result, many of those countries have made significant progress.
Unfortunately, frozen conflicts and resolved conflicts, including, for example, Syria and the forced displacement crises they have engendered, pose a new set of challenges. For example, with Syrian refugee populations in Jordan, Turkey and Lebanon, girls’ school attendance has increased. It fell dramatically. And that, you know, also noticed an increase in child marriage.
Unfortunately, these are all crises similar to the situations on the ground. And, if we focus on the ongoing war between Hamas and Israel, a new component has been injected into the Palestinian-Israeli clash that we have also highlighted in another, which is sexual violence. And there are UN reports that, as you know, have highlighted the use of sexual violence.
And then you see the effect of this confrontation on women and women in Gaza and the humanitarian crisis that has spread there. So there are actually a lot of other images throughout the region. And it’s often unfair to say that the region is doing very well overall, because there are very marked differences at all levels.
You know, kind of free, in the same vein as Marissa. She talks about the inequalities in the region and the progress where it is happening. But a regression where there is none. Well, what about the young people in the region, the young women?Do we see other expectations among young people, and is it starting to gain ground culturally or politically?
I also echo Marissa’s comments and the fact that you see quite stark differences across the region when it comes to other young people. I mean, you see, for example, Iran and other young people and young women in particular took over the leadership of the country, you know, two years ago, leading massive mini-protests. And in that sense, we see other young people being quite autonomous in the region, empowered to express themselves, empowered to replace things.
But the contrast is stark when it comes to Syria, as Marissa mentioned, and the displacement conflict in which young women in particular, women, are hit hard. So this stark contrast is also reflected among other young people, and it would be difficult to describe it in a general way by saying that, in general, young people are more empowered to initiate change, to express themselves, because in some places in the region, cases do not necessarily recommend it.
But the momentum is still there and it’s in the pockets. Before I conclude, I need to give you the opportunity to make a final reflection. He’s been generous in answering my questions, however, there may be a few things I haven’t mentioned that you think are worth mentioning. So, let’s start with the introductory order, Marissa.
Any final thoughts? So I think the only thing we need to keep in mind is that adjustments are taking place. It’s not linear, and we want to be strategically patient to see some positive adjustments, but also to perceive the setbacks, because there are external points that we can’t control. But I’m very proud of what Erdogan has done and I’m looking ahead to the next five years to see how he will be replaced in the next five years.
When we look back, you know, ten years from now, five years from now. I just hope it goes slower than the first five. We want to stop this too quickly. Faria, it’s up to you. I would say I’m also excited about the replacement that’s happening. In the same way, as Mirza said, it’s not a linear morality, you know, from there, I’m excited to see how replacement will differ from how substitution has happened elsewhere in the world.
I think women in the region are actually forging their own path and forging new identities, forging new norms. And I think that’s going to create really lasting change. And I think it’s very exciting, exciting to watch, even if it’s hard to bear. . Well, thanks to both of you. Congratulations on the fifth anniversary. That and I need to say this to our audience and our listeners: If you visit the Wilson Center, Morgan website, you’ll find the systems tab.
The resources we are communicating about today and more are at your disposal because our visitors don’t just write and communicate about women’s leadership, they walk and communicate. So thank you both. Congratulations on this milestone. We hope you enjoyed this edition of the Wilson Center now and that you register soon.
Meanwhile, for all of us downtown, I’m John Milewski. Thank you for your time and attention.
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